Yes, I was actually obliquely referencing her take in my final lines there, but didn’t mean to be too glib. I’m just a fan of film actors being allowed to act. Inclusionary takes are important, and understandable, but the wider themes of The Whale are nothing to do with weight. I felt the same way about the movie “Whiplash” and a bunch of music school people complained that it wasn’t really how it is there - which was to similarly miss the point I think.
I say this a huge fan of Roxane Gay’s writing - and I’m not trying to take anyone’s right to have their say about the film. This is my personal take. I’ve found Gay’s writing to be mostly amazing, and I’ve even identified with some of it (she might laugh at that). That piece in particular that she wrote about knowing when you’re the largest person in the room and feeling the eyes on you, that hit hard.
When I was in my final year of high school, I was big, but also athletic - fast, and fit. I played sports in adult teams. And I was good. And yet my nickname by one guy in particular (a grown man) in the team was “Whale”. I forgot about that until I sat watching this film. I was able to laugh at that now, just as I was then. The sadness of the man calling me that. The desperation that he was funny or cutting or anything really. But that’s me. And that’s my ability to process that on such a level. I couldn’t possibly take away anyone’s right to be offended by what they deem caricature or grotesque or missing the mark. I just thought Aronofsky’s film was seeking wider than just fat-shaming. I didn’t feel it was doing that. I also didn’t think that was even the point of the film. But to force people into this world in this way, to watch this character in this movie, is compelling enough. Because there are moments when you want to look away, but to do so is to express a disgust which instantly catches you in the frame of being one of the guilty ones I think. Anyway, Roxane Gay is such a great writer. And yet in this instant I disagree with most of what she’s said here, but love the fact that this film will be polarising. Thanks for sharing the link.
Thanks so much for sharing. That’s a really thoughtful response. I thought the main criticism of the film wasn’t the fat suit but the way it depicts very fat people. I think that’s the interesting thing about films eh, what we carry into them, what our experience of the world has been and how we feel about that. ❤️
I was lucky to see a preview today of it. Very confronting but also so compelling. The acting was superb all around. It’s not the best movie in the Oscar hunt but Fraser must go close for his performance.
Yes, totally - and that's my point linking this film to Whiplash; jazz students complained about the depiction of jazz musicians and/or drummers, whereas it's a film about the human condition through the metaphor of a high achieving musician. Same with The Whale. Yes, it is about a morbidly obese person, yes, some people aren't going to like the depiction, but where is the rule that in creative storytelling everything must be accurate, based on lived experience, inclusive, correct, inoffensive and such. Aren't we dictating how storytellers tell their stories, and can't we just vote with our feet? I totally get that a very fat person isn't usually depicted in a film or as a punchline or someone to be punched down on here, but I just didn't feel that with this depiction. It speaks to that amazing human quality that we worry more about the problems facing other people than our own, that we want to fix everyone else and not ourself, that our guilt and shame is based on the things we couldn't 'fix'.
Interesting discussions should happen with film, that's why I have no issue with Roxane Gay's review, it's a good piece of writing, as is the case with her work. She's superb.
Yeah I hear you. And I definitely think we should just vote with our feet. She really is such a great writer - I e heard her speak and she’s just as impressive in real life. Have thought about doing her masterclass too... She has an awesome newsletter called The Audacity. Really good roundups.
Interested to know what you think of Roxane Gay’s review? https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/10/opinion/the-whale-film.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
Yes, I was actually obliquely referencing her take in my final lines there, but didn’t mean to be too glib. I’m just a fan of film actors being allowed to act. Inclusionary takes are important, and understandable, but the wider themes of The Whale are nothing to do with weight. I felt the same way about the movie “Whiplash” and a bunch of music school people complained that it wasn’t really how it is there - which was to similarly miss the point I think.
I say this a huge fan of Roxane Gay’s writing - and I’m not trying to take anyone’s right to have their say about the film. This is my personal take. I’ve found Gay’s writing to be mostly amazing, and I’ve even identified with some of it (she might laugh at that). That piece in particular that she wrote about knowing when you’re the largest person in the room and feeling the eyes on you, that hit hard.
When I was in my final year of high school, I was big, but also athletic - fast, and fit. I played sports in adult teams. And I was good. And yet my nickname by one guy in particular (a grown man) in the team was “Whale”. I forgot about that until I sat watching this film. I was able to laugh at that now, just as I was then. The sadness of the man calling me that. The desperation that he was funny or cutting or anything really. But that’s me. And that’s my ability to process that on such a level. I couldn’t possibly take away anyone’s right to be offended by what they deem caricature or grotesque or missing the mark. I just thought Aronofsky’s film was seeking wider than just fat-shaming. I didn’t feel it was doing that. I also didn’t think that was even the point of the film. But to force people into this world in this way, to watch this character in this movie, is compelling enough. Because there are moments when you want to look away, but to do so is to express a disgust which instantly catches you in the frame of being one of the guilty ones I think. Anyway, Roxane Gay is such a great writer. And yet in this instant I disagree with most of what she’s said here, but love the fact that this film will be polarising. Thanks for sharing the link.
Thanks so much for sharing. That’s a really thoughtful response. I thought the main criticism of the film wasn’t the fat suit but the way it depicts very fat people. I think that’s the interesting thing about films eh, what we carry into them, what our experience of the world has been and how we feel about that. ❤️
And I thought your takes on it were spot on @simon
Cheers
I was lucky to see a preview today of it. Very confronting but also so compelling. The acting was superb all around. It’s not the best movie in the Oscar hunt but Fraser must go close for his performance.
Yes, totally - and that's my point linking this film to Whiplash; jazz students complained about the depiction of jazz musicians and/or drummers, whereas it's a film about the human condition through the metaphor of a high achieving musician. Same with The Whale. Yes, it is about a morbidly obese person, yes, some people aren't going to like the depiction, but where is the rule that in creative storytelling everything must be accurate, based on lived experience, inclusive, correct, inoffensive and such. Aren't we dictating how storytellers tell their stories, and can't we just vote with our feet? I totally get that a very fat person isn't usually depicted in a film or as a punchline or someone to be punched down on here, but I just didn't feel that with this depiction. It speaks to that amazing human quality that we worry more about the problems facing other people than our own, that we want to fix everyone else and not ourself, that our guilt and shame is based on the things we couldn't 'fix'.
Interesting discussions should happen with film, that's why I have no issue with Roxane Gay's review, it's a good piece of writing, as is the case with her work. She's superb.
Yeah I hear you. And I definitely think we should just vote with our feet. She really is such a great writer - I e heard her speak and she’s just as impressive in real life. Have thought about doing her masterclass too... She has an awesome newsletter called The Audacity. Really good roundups.
Her masterclass was Excellent